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Shop Talk Job Costing: Balancing Fair Margins with Competitive Pricing | Steelhead Shop Talk
Identity & metadata
Video title Job Costing: Balancing Fair Margins with Competitive Pricing | Steelhead Shop Talk
Customer name Steelhead Shop Talk
Title & company Dean Halonen, Steelhead Technologies
Ken Hannem, D&K Powder Coating
Date recorded 2026
Product/feature Shop Talk; job costing; margins; pricing; manufacturing operations
One-sentence summary Dean Halonen and Ken Hannem discuss how job costing helps manufacturers balance fair pricing, improve margins, identify operational inefficiencies, and make better business decisions.
Problem described Manufacturers face constant pressure from pricing, labor, materials, equipment failures, rework, shifting schedules, and unreliable visibility into which jobs are actually profitable.
Solution described Job costing provides clear data on profitability, efficiency, pricing, labor performance, and customer fit, helping shops improve operations and maintain fair, sustainable margins.
Quantified outcomes • Load schedule improved from 3 weeks to 12 weeks at Alumacraft
• Some parts improved margins by 30%
• Target labor punch goal discussed at 37 hours out of 40
• 24-hour turnaround example for a customer emergency
Emotional tone Practical, candid, experienced, analytical
Full transcript
Speaker labels Dean Halonen and Ken Hannem
Timestamps Not included in the provided transcript.
Key quote callouts [QUOTE] “If you want to make money, if you want to grow, if you want to stay solvent... you need to know if you're making money.”
[QUOTE] “We're not the Walmart of the powder coat world.”
[QUOTE] “We don't gouge.”
[QUOTE] “I can compare margins from today to last July.”
Filler/redaction notes Transcript preserved verbatim from the text provided, including filler words, repeated phrases, and informal phrasing.
Transcript All right, everybody. Thanks for joining us today here at uh noon. We are live here in Minnesota and welcome to Shop Talk. So, this show shop talk is for those people that have dedicated their livelihood to the craft of manufacturing. And the reason is because those people understand that manufacturing from my perspective is the hardest job in the world. And when I say that, customers always, you know, like like the reason why that is is because customers want parts faster at lower prices. Operators want I guess operators are in some cases unreliable. They don't always show up or they're they leave for another dollar. Um materials, the inventory prices are kind of go up and up and up. Uh wages go up, equipment can fail. Uh there's reworks that can kill the productivity. the sales can be, you know, volatile or unpredictable. The schedule on a day-to-day shift to shift uh basis is always dynamic and changing. And this causes a lot of pressure if you're running or leading or working in a manufacturing shop from all angles. And in many cases, the margin uh because of many dimensions can get squeezed. And so life in a j in in in a shop is it's chaotic. It's a daily firefighting of problems and this show talk is built to bring on people who love to fight the fire and conquer the fire. So, welcome everybody. My name is Dean Hullin. I'm a co-founder and CRO of of Steelhead Technologies. And today I'm welcome I'm excited to have on uh a friend of mine uh Ken Hanam. I call him the king of casting. Ken Hannam out of DNK Powder Coating in Mano, Minnesota. And today in this episode, we'll dive into Ken uh his background, his perspective on on all things manufacturing and job costing. I'm truly truly impressed by what Ken has done. I've talked to thousands of people in the manufacturing space and I don't know anybody that is sharper around margins than Ken. So Ken, thanks for joining us today. welcome to have you here. Um, and welcome to the show. >> It's a pleasure. Thanks, Dean, for asking. >> Yeah. So, Ken, just to kick it off and give us a feeling of of where you're coming from in into the into the job shop space, what is your manufacturing background before coming to DNK powder coating? >> Uh, position I held before this was uh logistics and production planning manager for a Lumiccraftraft boat. I was there for 20 years. The it started out being inside sales and it kind of morphed through time. Uh once we had leadership in place that wanted to solve the problems, um we were able to then obviously work on the problems and we conquered them. And for an example, we went the goal has always been to be 3 weeks out on the load schedule. And I by the time I was done it was out 12 weeks on the load schedule and we were shipping as many we shipped every single boat we made every day and uh it was it was exciting. Um >> it was it was a lot of fun to be honest. >> And this is alumcraft and uh the boatman. You said your lead time went from what to what? Well, the people would get there would be there's a load schedule and you basically want to have a plan on what loads are being delivered when and they the the problem we had was that production didn't was just a a crapshoot. Um it was never nothing was really planned for what they were trying to get done. And so I would, it was shooting from the hips and trying to do the best you can. And then finally, uh, leadership changed and they just said, "Okay, Ken, you know the problem. Tell us what we need to do to fix them." And they actually, uh, they actually backed up what I suggested to do and it worked. >> Nice. >> Made it fun. >> And yeah, it it is fun. It's always satisfying. what was the main problem and what was the the solution and then what was the load time difference? Well, the load time you you you they made three or four different models per week and they made 60 pieces of each one and then I had to after it was said and done then it's planning deliveries and you didn't always have dealers that ordered those certain boats. So, you had multiple stops. um found that most it if you can get down to one stop per load, it's the most efficient and um better for everybody. You can get more boats delivered if you're doing onetop loads rather than three to five. And the costs of the loads were cheap. So what we So what I suggested was we just produce two loads. So we would build five different models of boats and then I would know each dealer had what of those five boats and then their boats would come off the line at the same time and then I knew that the next day we could load them. So we were building to loads rather than loading from production. And like I said we went from 3 weeks out on the load schedule to 12. And the only reason why it was 12 and not more than that was because our lead time for consoles and windshields was was 12 weeks. So I was limited to that. But to be 12 weeks out, I literally could tell somebody who ordered a boat today when their boat was going to be delivered to the dealer. >> Wow. >> And within 24 hours of seeing that order, I could do that. >> And it was a lot. It was, like I said, it was a lot of fun. >> Yeah. And I'd say Lumiccraft is a pretty standard manufacturing operation. Um, how does that compare to the life at DNK powder coating? Obviously, it's a little more unpredictable or there's you're not making the same a lot more. Can you explain uh you know going from an OEM into a job shop and and what the main differences are there? Well, when you when you work in that environment, you had a 12week plan for models and for parts and and so you knew what had to be delivered when. Here, um I am the last one to know usually um when there's something a project showing up. Um, I will have people come in without any phone calls and show up and drop off a $20,000 job and they don't even bat an eyelash at it. They just say, "Oh, just take care of it." And I had no idea. So, we stock a lot of powder. We we we have to be on top of it and and really stay on top of our trends and what our customers want to do because it's a it's a surprise. Um, there's nothing I would do if I was building um a $300,000 project. I would be in touch with everybody involved and let you know to make sure everyone's um everyone's on the same page. And I don't you don't see that here. And I'm I'm floored in many ways by the way they just drop stuff off and leave and then say, "Hey, please get it done by Friday type of thing." Um >> I luckily we get a lot of just do as fast as you can. >> Perfect. So that's >> we always have a reputation of of of getting turns done quickly. So >> yeah, I was going to say that. So the growth so steelhead has been serving DNK powder for the last three four years and the growth has been one of our highest or fastest growing customers. Um, what would you say at I guess the main services DNK powder provides are and then also what makes the DNK powder coating service so special because clearly um it's special based on the I mean the transformative growth we've seen um there there's some sort of sauce down there in Mano. >> Well, it helps having manufacturing local >> and we are part of the supply chain on some of it. um manufacturers will build frames and and bases and they get them pow they send them to us to get powder coated and then we deliver it to the manufacturer town. So being part of that supply chain has really helped out quite a bit. Um the other aspect of is we don't do anything but powder coat. Um we we do blasting, we do burnoff but it's all we don't build anything. So, we're not selling extra capacity. A lot of powder coders out there manufacture their own things and they sell their excess capacity. Well, what's all we do is powder coat. So, nobody's parts are waiting for our stuff to get through. Everyone's everyone's parts are a priority. >> Mhm. >> And we don't have to advertise. That's the one thing that I when I went to school it was advertise advertise advertise. Not here. Here it's it's all word of mouth. Um I can't tell you how many phone number phone calls I fielded where I was told by this company that you guys are the best and we need stuff. We need help bad. >> And uh it we back up everything everything that that people say about us. We back it up. And um again, it's a lot of fun when you have leadership uh the ownership of this company. Um he's he is as driven with customer service as I am. >> And and when I interviewed for this job and I found out that I can use my morals and he said the phrase of I've eliminated every reason for you to say no to a customer. So if there's a size constraint, if there's any kind of weird constraint, um we'll overcome it and that makes sales easy. >> Interesting. Um so essentially your sales and your marketing is your customer service and and your quality. Set another way. >> Yep. It is. Um, we have companies now that are basically saying, um, we like your we like the frames you make, but we don't like who you're powder coating with. Take them to DNK. >> Oh, wow. >> And and I've right now I've got three customers that are delivering frames in the next week that have all been told by the by that by their customer they have to bring it here. Mhm. >> Because we already know how to do it right and we're basically certified by them cuz they're obviously endorsing us. >> Yeah. Which is great for great for sales and the growth. So what do you say um over the last three four years the growth I've seen has been pretty strong and we don't need to comment specifically on the actual numbers. Um but you see new buildings going out back and and it's um and the rising tide lifts everybody up as I as I like to say. Um, but what has been the from your perspective, Ken, the primary driver of that growth? Is it just the is it the service and the in the in the quality or is there anything else that's um helping I mean near double the company? Um, we we basically our our our motto or our mission statement is to do a top quality job for a fair price at a quick turn. >> And we're doing um I can't tell you how many people I talked to and they contacted other powder coers and they're told it's going to be 3 4 weeks before their stuff can be done. And I turn around and say, "Well, we can do it in less than a week." >> And now, we're not the Walmart of of the powder coat world. We're not the cheapest, but when you want quality and you need quick turns, uh we do it for a fair price. And um with Steel Head, we're now we now know what makes money and what does not. >> Yeah. Um, when I first started here, um, I it was, uh, November of 2022, and I asked the owner, I said, "How do I know what I'm quoting is is making us any money?" And he looks at me and he goes, "We really don't." >> I was taken back a little bit. I said, "But you've grown substantially every year since 2013. how how you doing this? And he just said, "We just work off the P&L and we have to just we're getting we're just trying to be smart." And then here January after that, you come sh walking in through the door and pitch the owner about this ERP system >> uh for powder coating. And I saw the light. I saw the light instantly that that's what we needed. And I had already been bugging the owner about stuff like that, trying doing time studies or whatever to try to figure out what's making money and not. So when you came in, he was already trying to think of a way to get this accomplished. So your timing couldn't have been any better. Yeah. And then then of course when once it was decided to go forward, the cooperation with you and the staff is by far what's allowed everything to happen the way it did. >> Yeah. And so I I appreciate Yeah. The timing was just meant to be it feels like and uh the partnership's been amazing the last four years. Truly phenomenal people down there in Mano. Um the the maybe it's at the highest level, Ken, if you had explained imagine you had explained job costing to a first grader or you know someone that just graduating high school and they're considering uh or maybe they're a new new hireer, a new employee at DNK. How would you explain like this is job costing in its most basic form and why is it so important to a company to to have this locked in ever on every single order? If you want to make money, if you want to grow, if you want to stay solvent, get have uh reward good employees with good pay and good benefits, you need to know if you're making money and you need to know when you're not going to make money and you need to know all of that upfront. This system allows you to do that. But then on top of it, you use it to figure out where you're losing. Um, yeah, you find out what's going well and you find out and then you find out what's getting what's not going well and then you need to eliminate that. And once you eliminate that and then grow your better business, everybody will be happier. >> Yep. And on the eliminate that side of things is say say you have a job that is losing money. Is it always or just crank up the price or is it is there sometimes other things that you have to do and maybe could you give a story of like you know some scenarios that you've come across? Um, I had a customer when I took over, I got a block of customers and some were very small and and one particular one um once we were up on Steelhead, I noticed that we were negative margin on and he was producing 40 to 60 pieces at um we would do in a month, but he would only deliver like five at a And once we established, you know, I communicated to him that we want him to prosper, we want him to be successful, this is what we this is what I suggest. I work like a a consultant for for se and say instead of delivering five pieces, deliver 20. you deliver 20 at a time and then I would say I want to check the margins and we got it to be okay we ran 20 we can now let's shoot for this price and he agreed that that price was fair and then when we ran it and I saw that we were close now it's time to turn inside and look can we be more efficient can we do something better to to have less time involved in so we can be more uh profitable. So, a lot of it's not just jacking up the price, it's also turning in looking in the mirror and saying, can we do this better? >> And that's how we've really done a lot of things is doing repeat business, but then getting better. Not sitting back and saying, "Oh, yeah, we've run this part thousand times. We know what we're doing." No, we're always looking for something better. We're always looking to do something different. >> We can always improve. And and you listen to your employees. That's the other thing. You listen to them. They have ideas. They understand what we're trying to do. They're vested. We have a profit sharing program. Um they understand that they have a voice and they have a part in this. And once you listen to everybody, things start going better. And then we talk about the bad. And once you establish you you're as much efficient as you can be and say this customer is still not happy and they're putting a lot of stress on you. Um it's time to say, "Well, we we obviously can't make you happy. You're going to have to find a different powder coater." I mean, it's just it's just one of the things you have to do because if we're never going to make them happy and we're constantly doing rework, we become less efficient. We become unprofitable and their work is behind their schedule and we don't need that reputation out there. And then what I do is then the customers who do appreciate us, who do talk and are open and willing to really work as a team, I now tell them we now have extra capacity. So what we've done is I have all the difficult customers that that stress out people and cost us money, I've now replaced with more of our good customers and they appreciate the extra capacity. And how do they do that? By bringing more stuff and then by telling other people about how wonderful we are. Because if they're a wonderful customer, they have wonderful friends. They have wonderful contacts within the industry >> and you just build on that. >> So just to restate this just to clarify it in my head. So, say you you run a bad job. Your options are a just uh try to simplify it. A go back to the customer and say, "Hey, we need to bump up our volumes of part numbers because you know this if you're sending us five parts, we'll have to either crank up the price or you'll have to send us more parts to justify the the setup cost and like the the transactional cost of a job." B. Uh the second option is try to find a way to get more efficient with the with it as is. Um or C if if A and B fail, we have to go back to the customer and have an honest conversation about pricing, right? Like hey, it's just the price has to go up. And then if you're saying they're a bad customer, like they're just not able to pay you uh your target margin, then you you should have no problems just flushing them and and just trusting that good customers do exist that are willing to pay the right price. And if you flood your portfolio with good customers, um a lot of good things happen. You have great reputation. You can afford to do great quality. you can you can have capacity for good lead times and it creates like a positive flywheel inside of the business. Is that correct, Ken? >> That's a that's a good way of putting it. Um, a lot of my customers are friends. They have become my friends because they trust me that that I care about them. I want and they understand we're going to make a dime because we need to stay in business for them and for anybody else. >> There's no sugar coating it. And when I'm very honest, we're not I see enough of a trend here. And again, this is where steelhead really comes in. I've established a trend or the part has established a trend that we need to make a decision if we're going to run it or change the price or or on top of it be more efficient. >> Yeah. >> And and I've got we've we've we do a lot of that. We look inside too. We look at ourselves besides just jacking up the price. >> We look at what we can do better for the customer and then the and then everything just kind of fits together. >> Yeah. And then on the customer relations side of things as far as like say you do have to have a tough convers you know at some point wages are going up, powder's going up, materials are going up, right? everything's rising and there's going to have to be some conversations with customers saying, "Hey, um the price is not no yesterday's price is not today's price." And do you I mean, historically, I think a lot of people do like a blanket price increase, right? Across the board, everything is going up 10 points, 10%, right? Um I've seen people do that before. Um is that what you like to do, Ken? or how do you handle like a because you want to have trust and and you want them to like you and continue sending parts but you also got to hit your target margin. So how do you handle that the customer conversation with the job costing data? Well, I have a I have a large customer that is worldwide >> uh multi-billion dollar industry. >> Mhm. and the establishment of a agreement that you know we have a trend. They say every quarter I can supply them a list of parts that I want to change price on. And the my own personal thing is is if I'm going to raise three, I want to lower three. >> Um You're lowering prices for customers. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Because we don't need to gouch. >> I want we want to we want to do a fair have a fair price for the fair work we do. >> And and um some some mentalities out there are uh have a loss leader negative margins and then you have one that's like triple what you what you set out for a goal and you settle for the middle. Um, in this situation with this customer, um, every single order is one part. So, I'm able to establish a trend per part and they allow me to change the give me an opportunity to change a price every quarter. So, I'm able to come up and say, "Yeah, I want I would like these six changed up, whatever that amount is." And then I have these maybe three or four I want to lower because they're they're consistently too high. Now, that customer knows they know that when I need to change, it's not because I just want to gouge. >> It's because I care about being fair at all times. >> And again, um being able to use your morals >> Yeah. >> is liberating. >> Yeah. And and also it it it stabilizes the business. And when I say that, I mean I've seen firsthand where this is just an example, but say we have a part at 50% net margin, right? And we have another part at maybe 3%. So this one's a little high, a little rich, and this one is very, very low, right? And then over time, say days, weeks, months, orders, and orders go by, they'll they eventually people do price shop something. They're like, "Hey, looks feels a little high here." then you might lose all this high margin work to a competitor and you're stuck with this rock bottom work uh forever, right? And this is backing up your business. You have a long backlog of work uh but you're not making money. You can't raise your, you know, your wages. You can't really serve properly your your your customers and actually can really crush the business. So >> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's it really comes down to being fair all the time. >> And and a majority of my customers, >> they don't shop anymore. >> They don't shop anymore. I've after four years, um I've proven that I am fair and I care about them. If they're staying in business, that allows us to stay in business. And we work together. Um, we when their parts arrive, we're looking as if there's missing welds or if there's a there's something wrong with it. Um, I can't tell you how many times a painter has has got my attention because they're painting all the same part and they notice this one's missing a weld. >> Mhm. >> Um, we we always are looking to looking out for our customer at every level within this operation. And when you do that, you you build a great deal of trust and the employees are are very important. Everyone every single one. >> Yeah. And and then so it's it's pretty interesting because typically most people say job costing like we we want to make sure we're hitting our target margin and I don't hear of many companies ever lowering their prices. Um, so it's pretty rare and I think that builds a ton of a ton of trust. Um, but it really levels off. So say you have everything at your target margin. Um, then it doesn't really matter what jobs show up. You said it's a surprise. >> It's a surprise what parts show up on a Monday. Um, but as long as we know that everything's hitting our target margin. We we don't really care what parts come in. Um, we're going to hit our numbers day after day, week after week. Exactly. Um, so you nailed it. >> That's pretty cool. And then Kenny, I know I was talking to you last night just uh uh catching up on things and you mentioned that you inherited a customer in August and they were maybe 50% of your target margin and in December um in a couple months time you got them right back up to your target margin which is super impressive. Um it clearly takes an innate uh talent uh to to do that. Um >> how did you do that? um their agreement, their agreement um before I before they became my customer was they were going to have certain quantities delivered per part and they never lived up to that. Mhm. >> So my olive branch to them was if you can't produce the quantities that we quoted at, we were, you know, for example, if they if they said they were going to send us 400 pieces and they send us 30, um, we all know that's going to cost more to do that 30 than at that price that we're supposed to be doing in hundreds at. >> I just basically sat down and said, "Okay, this is the price if you're going to deliver that quantity." >> Mhm. I I have no choice. And they understood well now they're delivering the parts of their quantities and and things are and they also understand that when we get a smaller quantity things are going to change and they also know that we will jump through the hoop for them because if they're behind in their production their factory doesn't run. So they will pay the expedite fees for us to get things done. Um, we've done we just did something for them in 24 hours. >> And I don't know how many other powder coders out there can just whip out 24-hour work. >> Yeah. It's like Amazon Prime, right? People are willing to pay extra for speed. >> And I mean, the think of the cost of not being able to have the factory running, of telling everybody they have to go home because there's no parts. um we're able to react to that and help our customers keep their factories running as long as the communication is open. And see that's the other end end of it. They trust that they can talk to me and to ask through things and I honestly go to bat for them with the leadership of on the floor about what they need to to be successful for them. And everybody here cares about that. I'm not I don't have to butt heads with anybody. Everybody's saying, "Okay, well, that's what it takes to that make, you know, keep their factory running. We're going." And it's it's really nice. >> Yeah. If everyone's on the same page, it creates a welloiled machine. So, kind of have one last topic, but for the guests on the call here, um if you do have any questions for Ken or myself, um primarily for Ken, please put them in the chat and we'll answer them at the end of the call here. Um but kind the last topic we covered the customer side of job costing and maybe the internal uh frameworks. What about the operator side? So like imagine life before you had a great job costing system and then for the operator and then life after you have this job costing system in place. How has that changed how the operators are? You mentioned there's like you're looking at for continuous improvements and and watching the numbers. um how how has that changed the operator's um day-today life or maybe the the production side of of DNK powder with this job costing uh data now at your fingertips? They know. They know. Everyone on the floor knows that if I see an irregular time percentage, um if I see that uh hanging is 40% 47% of the of the invoice, that's a red flag. Why is that? And so um I have the director of operations is very open to going and finding out why is this and people know that there will be followup. So there is there is accountability >> and everybody from the top down says you do your punches, you follow steelhead, you do it the right way or or else there's going to be consequences. And everyone knows here, everyone night shift, everyone knows they've got to do their punches accurately and and correctly. and they just know it's it's we've built we've built a lot of uh understanding of what the expectations are >> and it's been top down and and uh I can't argue about any of our success because it shows. >> Yeah. And is there was there push back in the early side from the operators to to you know tracking all the time or and then if so how is that handled or mitigated? >> They're human. Um if you don't think there's going to be followup you test it once in a while. Um, if things get a little sloppy, well then as soon as it as soon as it gets sloppy, um, I see it and then their boss will see it and then they're and then they're asked about it. It's it doesn't have to be cutthroat, but just asking them what happened here. Now they're in it that, oh, people are looking at numbers. Before I really do dove into this, um, it really was, well, no one's looking at the numbers, so what does it matter? Well, now they know we look at the numbers. We every single time I every single one of my orders, I'm looking at them before they leave here. So, and I also look at them while they're still in in on the floor. >> Why do you do that? >> Because it's easier to fix it um >> live. >> Yeah, it is. as soon as as soon as one is in my head. Anything under anything well over 40% of the of the bill is a red flag to why. I mean, that's that's a high percentage. And everybody knows that we will be following up and do it every day. >> Wow. Just consistent, consistent, consistent. Um, >> yeah. You don't you don't just blow it off because guess what? When you do blow it off, your margins start to fall. >> Yeah, I would agree. I heard margins are like gravity and if you don't watch them, they just they fall to zero. Um >> sloppy. >> Now, Ken, on on so say say something is a high, it's higher than expected, right? And you walk out to the shop floor, maybe go to the director of operations or the operator. Um what percent of the time is it like hey we need to find a better way to do this operation if it's hanging or or packaging or bl maybe um blasting um and then what% of the times is like well we we just got to raise prices because this operator is doing it as good as they can and there's no possible way to >> that's what you do if as long as you've already looked at yourself and said we're as efficient as we can be then it's a time to talk about about raising the price. >> Mhm. >> And then the customer has to make the decision if it's worth if they feel there's value to it. >> Yeah. >> They know they know they're in business, too. They know they have to make a profit on what they're doing. Um to me, it's just good communication um with the customer upfront. You know, um I can't tell you how many times I've been told that this part's going to become the parts are going to be coming in ready for wash and they come in caked with rust. That changes everything. We have to sit down and re re have another discussion about what's needed here to get you this part to where it needs to be for your customer. and and we we hash it out and it's just communication upfront, honest, nothing mean, >> nothing nasty. >> Yeah. Would you say it's about So say there is a say there's a bad job or a bad part. Would you say it's about 5050 as far as like we have to raise prices or we can fix it internally with just maybe a better effort or better operations. Is it is that roughly true? It >> Yeah. Um, yeah, there there are some Let's see. If it helps if you got repeat, if you got the same part over and over and over again in large batches, it's easier to get better at it quicker. >> Yeah. >> Um, when it's something that doesn't come very often, um, luckily we retain our employees. We retain a lot of our employees. We don't have big turnover in in in our in a lot of areas. So they all remember parts >> and they they learn their experiences with Steelhead. We're able to put pictures in with the part number. So if they tell me, hey, it would really be handy if you did this um in Steel Head so we can pull it up um and see that I do it in a heartbeat because if they're telling me it's it's a benefit, I'm doing it. >> Everybody wins, right? Yes, absolutely. >> Yeah. So, some sometimes it can be easy to forget what the business is. There there's like value ad services and then there's overhead, right? And the faster we can move parts through the plant. I mean, that that is like the that's what the whole company exists to do. So even though leadership is always oftentimes looked up you know at the highest with held at the highest regard really leadership is here to serve the operator smoother faster um leads to the uh the revenue growth that most people are chasing. >> It starts by hiring the right people with the right mentalities and then and m then backing up everything so they feel like they do get listened to. >> Yeah. So kind of maybe at the highest level just to kind of wrap up here, I know we're coming up on time. What would you say from the 10,000 foot view, how is job costing impacted yourself and and DNK powder at the highest level, say, you know, pre steelhead or or prejob costing to to today, what's been like the macro or like the the high level impacts to the company? Um, you see without it I I don't know what the numbers see when we first started with you, you got to come up with the cost per zone. You spend a lot of time tweaking that to get that dialed in. And then the longer between the tweaks, the better you see how everything is working. We haven't had a a change in our charge almost in a year. And right now I can compare margins from today to last July, for example, on a on a on a part because nothing has changed for costing, but it took a while to get there. And you have to be patient. You have to understand that. And once you get it dialed in though, it's it's wonderful because um I would say safely you you can increase certain parts 30%. In margins just by being aware of efficiencies that you can improve on yourself and then working with the customer um when that's been exhausted. >> Mhm. So, our margins have increased in uh dramatically, but they're also consistent and they're correct. >> Yep. >> And that's the key. >> And that's the key. Obviously, the companies exist to deliver. It's not if you're making no money or losing money, well, the company's going to go defunct or bankrupt. So, margin is critical to maintain the uh the lifeblood of the company. So, Ken, that that's great. And the last question I have for you, Ken, is say somebody is a brand new hire. They just started at DNK or they just started their manufacturing career and they're saying, "Hey, someday I want to be a leader. Maybe I want to own a job shop or maybe I want to, you know, get to a leadership position here." What's your advice to someone who wants to, you know, climb the ranks of a of a manufacturing company? >> Know your role. Know know what you enjoy. Um, I'm a detail person. I get into the little details. Ownership usually is big picture. They have a big picture and then I worry about the details to get the big picture done. Um, I've always been that way. Um, and I think that's my niche is that I I do the details, but everyone has a role. There's big picture people and there's small picture people, detail people and when people try to do the opposite role than than they are comfortable with you can have conflicts. So finding out what you like to do in the roles that exist out there and then so if say for example you're going to own a shop but you're a detail person then you hire someone to worry about the big picture. That's your c, you know, you you have to then bring in somebody who is big picture. >> If you're big picture type person, then you make sure you hire someone who's got details, does the small stuff, and then you have you have everything covered. >> Perfect. And kind of looks like we have one question in in the chat here from Lisa. Uh, she's asking, "Besides the part images, is there any specific features that your operators appreciate about Steelhead? They like the fact that they can they like the fact that they can see uh the hangers, for example. They like to know, hey, are we getting, you know, we hang this part all the time. Are we getting faster at it? What what what is it what is our trend? And you can actually go and tell them, you know, this is what you've been doing. And you can come up with you can even make a little report and show them how they're doing. and and uh they like there's quite a few people who like knowing how they're doing and they should know they should care and the fact that they do is very rewarding. >> Wow. >> And a lot of fun. >> Yeah. That's that's amazing. So, you're giving the operator feedback based on their statistics like like any sport would, right? Like, hey, you had a great game or a great day or a great shift. Um, >> it's part of their review. >> Oh, really? >> It's part of their review how they do with their punch their productivity. Are they punched in um out of their 40hour work week? Are they punched in for whatever the goal is set? I believe ours is like over 37 37 hours. If they're only punching to work for 26, what that's not efficient. that's what are they doing? >> So we reward those who maintain or hire >> the initial 37 hours >> for example >> and um people get paid based on their performance >> just like any sports team. That's amazing >> or any or any sales team. All right. Well, thanks Ken uh for being so gracious with your time. I know um we're we're on the call two minutes early and so like the job shop life is busy and uh so thank you so much for spending 45 minutes here with us. If anyone enjoyed today's conversation, you can share this episode. I think it'll be posted on um anywhere where you get your your your podcast like Spotify. Um and then if you do have any parts that need powder coating, please reach out to ken.han dnkpowdercoding.com. they'll take care of you inside of five calendar days. And then if you're curious about job costing data um or want to see how STA can help in that in that uh regard, go to ghost gosteila.com uh to learn more. But thanks again everybody for listening and we'll catch you all next time on our next episode of Shop Talk. Thank you. Thank you.
Taxonomy tags
Industry Manufacturing; Powder Coating
Company size SMB / Mid-market
Use case Job costing; pricing strategy; operational efficiency; margin management
Stage of journey Education / Advocacy